Guest journalist Sándor Zsiros in The Global Conversation room Emily O’Reilly, European Ombudsman. His cabinet deals with transparency and ethics issues, related to the EU. Euronews reporters accepted him to interview him, within the framework of the program. In their meeting he spoke to him, particularly about corruption and trust in European institutions.

Emily O’Reilly, thanks for joining us. Recently, we witnessed the biggest corruption scandal in European Union history: MPs and parliamentary assistants were caught with bags full of money. Did this scandal surprise you?asked Euronews reporter Sándor Zsiros.

“Yes, and no. I mean, the scandal itself is quite shocking, and it’s being dealt with in Belgian courts. We have to weigh all of that. I think anyone who sees it will be shocked, because the pictures are very impressive. We really saw euro bills. We looked at briefcases. So, everybody got cartoon pictures of corruption. That’s quite serious. But I think, a lot of regulations and codes, which are supposed to protect Parliament from corruption, they are not being enforced or checked. Even though there are a lot of them, they are not really enforced or checked. So, I guess, it’s kind of a scandal. , or an accident, it will happen,” replied Emily O’Reilly, European Ombudsman.

This organization or network has been operating in the DPR for a long time. How is it possible that inside the EU they went undetected, that they were only found by the Belgian Police?journalists want to know.

“As I understand it, it’s the intelligence agencies of other countries that provide information to the Belgian authorities. So, that’s what happened there. One of the EU’s anti-fraud agencies, European Anti-Fraud Office, Fraud, OLAF has always had problems, when using its powers, in relation to Parliament, so for example, if they suspect someone of wrongdoing in another institution, in another EU institution, they have the right to enter this institution, to enter people’s offices, to check their computers… to do almost all things as a police officer, but Parliament has always denied what OLAF considers a ‘legal right to do so’ So the question is: does OLAF have the right to enter , and search MPs’ offices, if there is any suspicion that something is wrong, is the scandal will be detected, before it is found by the authorities? But… we don’t know. It’s just speculation,” said Emily O’Reilly.

Now, the European Parliament is trying to fix things to end this scandal. Do you think they are doing enough?asked Sándor Zsiros.

“I watched what happened in Parliament in December, when the scandal broke, and everyone said the right thing. Everyone said: this is terrible. We have to fix it. We have to fix it. But now, it’s been a few months, and we are still waiting to see, exactly, what fixing it means”, said the European Ombudsman.

Let’s talk about the big picture, about what this corruption scandal means for the entire European Union, as it has proven to erode trust in institutions. What do you think about the long term effects?asked a Euronews reporter.

“Well, I think you’re right. Trust is very important. It says that you can’t have political legitimacy without moral authority. Nor can you have political legitimacy if people don’t trust you. And of course, as you know, we realize that, now , we’re in Brussels. To most people, Brussels is an idea, and it’s a very distant idea. So, they don’t understand it in the same way as they would their own Member State governments, Administration, and so on. Therefore, they are almost doomed not to believe it, because they don’t understand it.In short, the trust that exists, and may exist between the EU and its citizens is quite fragile, and as a result, when a Government does something, when the EU does something that undermines that trust, it can have an effect that almost undermines the confidence of people in the EU. You have to distinguish between minor incidents, which may seem insignificant, and the general panorama, the way they lead or can lead to citizen distrust, of the whole EU project. It is also used by European Union skeptics and detractors. So it is very important that the EU acts according to the highest ethical standards possible, to protect its political legitimacy,” said the Irish-born MEP.

There was another scandal, when the former European Commission Director General of Transport flew nine times to Qatar. The trip was financed by the Qatari government. It was made when the European Union was negotiating with Qatar, in the aviation sector. For you, Is this a transparency or lobbying issue? Are there any discrepancies?journalists want to know.

“You know, that’s something extraordinary, because it’s not just the European Union that is developing this open skies policy, which is going to directly benefit Qatar Airways, the company that is offering this man free flights to Qatar. It’s his department. So, there’s an obvious conflict of interest, but when the spokesperson for the European Commission was asked who decides whether or not there’s a conflict of interest, it came to light that it was him, so he asked himself if there was a conflict of interest. interesting, and obviously, he said no, or whatever he said, and he went and flew to Qatar,” explained Emily O’Reilly.

The President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, discussed, in a private text message, with the CEO of Pfizer, the issue of acquiring the vaccine. Those text messages are not archived, not published. How do you see this problem for the future? I’m referring to the question of treating, in a different way, this type of messageclarified the interview writer.

“Nowadays, we are all used to using WhatsApp, Snapchat and others to send our messages. And, while it’s very effective, the kind of transparency and accountability, when public administrations use these methods of communication, and politicians do too. …that’s a problem. So the question is: how do we record it?” said the European Ombudsman.

Let’s talk money, because hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars are pouring into recovery and resilience services. In addition, the European Union supports Ukraine’s defense with billions of euros. Will European taxpayers be able to track where the money is going?asked Sándor Zsiros.

“Well, I think it should be. I don’t think so, at all. That is, we have worked quite a bit on the post-crisis fund of the coronavirus pandemic, around 700 billion euros, regardless of the amount. What we are saying is that this money has been distributed among Member States. put to good use and so on. So, let the citizens also control this money”, emphasized the Irish-born MEP.

Your organization just released last year’s annual report. When all these events are added up, such as: transparency, pressure groups, ethical issues, the Qatar scandal… Do you think this is a turning point in the image of the European Union?asked the Euronews journalist.

“With regards to the Qatar scandal, this is an interesting story, because it is very easy to understand. It was awful, and we had pictures of the money in the suitcase. But, at the same time, I think it also recognizes the growing importance of the European Union. Of course, when you have the polarization of the United States, you have Brexit and what’s happening in the UK, you have the Russia issue, the China issue and other issues… There has never been a greater need for Europe to assert itself globally. But, for that, Europe has to have moral authority, and I think that has to do with a lot of the issues you just mentioned,” Emily O’Reilly concluded.